Rules of Ultimate governed by the World Flying Disc Federation

Stall count after a contested marking infraction.

  • binchyster
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10 months 5 days ago #1461 by binchyster
I haven't been able to figure out from the rules the correct stall count to resume on following a stoppage from a contested marking infraction.

Example:
  • The marker says "stalling 1... 2... 3... 4...".
  • The thrower calls "fast count". (18.1.1.1.3. counts in less than one second intervals,)
  • The marker calls "contest" and play stops. (18.1.2. A marking infraction may be contested by the defence, in which case play stops.)
  • During the discussion both players still disagree on what occurred and decide to resolve with a contested fast count. What is the correct stall to resume play on?

  • The rules only seem to mention the uncontested case:

    18.1.3. After all marking infractions listed in 18.1.1 that are not contested, the marker must
    resume the stall count with the number last fully uttered before the call, minus one (1).


    Have I just not found the rule, or is the resolution implicit in some other rule that I am forgetting?

    Thanks

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    10 months 5 days ago - 10 months 5 days ago #1462 by julianbu
    You have to go back to the rules regarding the stall count.

    After play stops the stall count is resumed as follows:
    9.5.1. After an uncontested breach by the defence the stall count restarts at “Stalling one (1)”.
    9.5.2. After an uncontested breach by the offence the stall count restarts at maximum nine (9).
    9.5.3. After a contested stall-out the stall count restarts at “Stalling eight (8 )”.
    9.5.4. After all other calls, including “pick”, the stall count restarts at maximum six (6).

    9.6. To restart a stall count “at maximum n”, where “n” is determined by 9.5.2, or 9.5.4, means the following:
    9.6.1. If “x” is the last number fully uttered prior to the call, then the stall count resumes at “Stalling (x plus one)” or “Stalling n”, whichever of those two numbers is lower.


    So play should restart at maximum six.
    Example 1: "Stalling 1,2,3,4, " - "Fast Count" - "Contest" , Check-In with "Stalling 5".
    Example 2: "Stalling 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 " - "Fast Count" - "Contest" , Check-In with "Stalling 6".
    Last edit: 10 months 5 days ago by julianbu. Reason: ( 8 ) became an emoji

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    10 months 4 days ago #1463 by joshringer
    Replied by joshringer on topic Stall count after a contested marking infraction.
    Yep.

    ..although that brings up an even more interesting scenario:

    M: Stalling 8...9..10
    T: Fast count!
    M: Stall out!

    So in the event of a dual contested stall out vs. fast count, restart at 6? or 8?

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    10 months 4 days ago #1464 by rueben
    Stalling 8:

    13.4. If a fast count occurs in such a manner that the offence does not have a reasonable opportunity to call fast count before a stall-out, the play is treated as a contested stall-out

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    10 months 4 days ago #1468 by binchyster
    Replied by binchyster on topic Stall count after a contested marking infraction.
    Ah can't believe I overlooked that part.

    Thinking about it though this seems a little unfair to the offense. For the example I used, they think the marker got to "4" too quickly, the marker contests and now it comes in on "5" (last number uttered +1), so they've lost even more time. I guess this is one of the few cases where defense is favored in a contested call.

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    10 months 4 days ago - 10 months 4 days ago #1469 by julianbu
    Well, contested calls may favour one or the other team. But I would argue that it isn't biased towards any side. You can easily make up a similar scenario where the offense is favored.

    "Stalling 6, 7, 8" - "Fast count" - "Contest". If the marker counted in one second intervals but the thrower still insists on the fast count the offense suddenly gets two seconds for free.

    So I think maximum 6 is a good compromise.
    Last edit: 10 months 4 days ago by julianbu.

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