Rules of Ultimate governed by the World Flying Disc Federation

Laying out without looking vs poaching defender

  • julianbu
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10 months 6 days ago - 10 months 6 days ago #1458 by julianbu
The following scenario occurs.

Offense player A makes an upline cut and gets thrown to. The throw gets caught by the wind and floats longer and further than intended. Defensive player B poaches off his defender to make a play on the disc.
Both A and B take straight lines to the disc, defender B coming from downfield sees offender A running up the line. B is aware that A most likely does not see B but is sure that he can run through the disc without initiating contact (leaving the contested space before A gets there, if A continues running straigt).
B gets to the disc first but A (still unaware of B) lays out and non-incidental contact occurs. (No contact would have most likely occured without the layout)

I was the defender B in this situation and having these two plays in mind
rules.wfdf.org/discussions/video/109-ano...erous-play-avoidable
rules.wfdf.org/discussions/video/61-this...-lot-of-people-on-ed
I thought they shouldn't be clean blocks as I was aware that contact could occur and was the one who could have avoided it by staying out of the play. On the other hand while sprinting and looking at the pass that is clearly intended for you is within the rules and poaching defenders should be aware that they might not be seen, it should also be reckless to lay out for a disc thats been floating for 2 or 3 seconds without checking whats ahead of you.

So basically my question is: Should (I) player B - when considering whether or not I could make a clean play on the disc - have taken in account the possibility of player A laying out? Thus making this a foul on player B
Or should the lay out by player A been considered a reckless play thus a foul on A?

Thanks for the answer!

Relevant rules:

12.8. Every player is entitled to occupy any position on the field not occupied by any opposing player, provided that they do not initiate contact in taking such a position.

Initiate contact: Any movement towards a legally positioned opponent (either their stationary position, or their expected position based on their established speed and direction), that results in unavoidable non-incidental contact.

12.9. All players must attempt to avoid contact with other players, and there is no situation where a player may justify initiating contact. “Making a play for the disc” is not a valid excuse for initiating contact with other players.

17.1. Dangerous Play:
17.1.1. Reckless disregard for the safety of fellow players is considered dangerous play and is to be treated as a foul, regardless of whether or when contact occurs. This rule is not superseded by any other rule.

Last edit: 10 months 6 days ago by julianbu.

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10 months 4 days ago #1467 by rueben
If B truly was moving in a straight line, and A was not looking where they were going for some time, then it is possible for B to call "Dangerous play" because A is being reckless, and player B can then stop themselves from bidding.

Then either Player A accepts the foul call, in which case player B takes possession, or they could contest based on the fact that both players were moving to the same place, and that it wasn't reckless, and it would be treated as an offsetting foul, in which case the disc goes back to the thrower.
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